Thomas, Martha, and Bruce Wayne are exiting the theater. Comments Fincher made shows that he did not like the film, criticizing it as another Hollywood franchise film that steals from more original films, namely Taxi Driver and the King of Comedy. Or did he go to the store to get them with a lot of supervision? It's also a callback to the first friendly moment he had (or imagined having) with her, when they commiserate about how bad it is to live in an old building with problems like an erratic elevator, and she makes the gesture as a self-revealing way to show how sick of it she is. Sher continued, "In terms of what we did visually to play with the real and not real, there are callbacks and scenes that mirror each other. Or was this scene a fantasy, a retelling of what supposedly happened or a wish of what happened? Randall is the secondary antagonist of the 2019 psychological thriller film Joker. Take that scene in the bathroom between Arthur and Thomas Wayne. No one else thought that it was funny but him. It's not established Penny's not Arthur/Joker's biological mother and that she ever lied about her relationship with Thomas Wayne. Thats definitely odd and its no wonder Alfred Pennyworth tries to defend Bruce Arthur expects Alfred Pennyworth, being British and all, to invite him in for a nice cup of tea where he can talk about both Thomas Wayne and his relationship with his mother. Edit, It's called Pseudobulbar affect (PBA), or emotional incontinence, which is a type of emotional disturbance characterized by uncontrollable episodes of crying and/or laughing, or other emotional displays. PBA occurs secondary to a neurologic disorder or brain injury. Joker is a movie that has taken both the box office and social media by storm, with the disturbing story of Arthur Fleck garnering mixed viewpoints among fans. Edit, I always wondered the same but I guess in a way it makes it more realistic since Arthur is that one guy that never knew the right thing to say or how to make himself look good or likable hence the villain outcast perception. The movie audience would then go away with a sense that this is what mental illness does to people, without the concept of grandeur or the understanding that this was the origin story of some villain. Viewers have offered several possibilities:1.) in my head. Others have been quick to point out that he'd have been unable to get out once he climbed inside, so it's certainly plausible. The fact that we only see Arthurs condition come out in tense moments, and we see it as a response to this line from Randall, it seems as though theres some history to Arthur having to pay back Randall, and being referred to as his boy. Edit, It's a direct homage to the film Taxi Driver. | I tensed up. It gets to the point where he's struggling just to breathe. Edit, "comedy is subjective", It is sort of a truism but it does fit, some people like a certain kind of humor that can fall completely flat for others. "Alternatively, in the bag that Randall gave him, it looked like there were plenty of bullets, even if one doesn't assume that the gun came pre-loaded. All rights reserved. Followed by beating him until all he can do is lay on the ground in pain. The last he could have allowed to live, however, yet he instead chooses to chase the man down and put five bullets in him. Ergo, Hoping his life makes more cents being dead than living would argue that people just wouldnt care if he was dead on the ground in the first place. When Arthur smothers his mother in the hospital, she's wearing a nasal cannula presumably hooked up to oxygen - how did she asphyxiate? "Does the fact that the original health worker and interview room, were different from those at the end of the movie not suggest it was a reality and at least some of the events did occur?Edit: There isn't "every indication" it was all in his head. Why Is Joker The Most Liked Villain? Science ABC He gets at least one call by the police because they want to question him. (Biggest opening weekend in Singapore for NC16-rated movie ever.). Todd makes it clear she wasn't killed. Randall represents the elite whereas Garry is a symbol of the lower classes. Was Detective Burke an antagonist? Isolated, bullied and disregarded by society, Fleck begins a slow descent into madness as he transforms into the criminal mastermind known as the Joker.Fair use.\"Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for \"fair use\" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching, scholarship, and research. Nevertheless, it works brilliantly as a metaphor for being born again. What was the actual cockpit layout and crew of the Mi-24A? The movie doesn't say. Why doesn't Arthur's doctor recommend a new doctor after their sessions end so he can keep getting his meds? 'Joker' spoilers! These 5 scenes will disturb you so much - USA Today Metaphorically Gotham is presented to us as a cold place, in which whatever the character does he's punished for. Possibly the crowning moment is when he gets his first stand-up gig. Just when he thinks he's caught up to them in an alleyway, they smash the sign over his face. When Arthur admitted on Murray's show that he killed the three Wall Street guys on subway why didn't he simply say it was self defense that way someone would understand how Arthur became Joker? -- One could deduce that Arthur could have fired as few as 3 or 4 rounds, with the actual incident being less dramatic than depicted. I kept saying "Please don't kill him. Like he is on the spectrum and he cannot relate. When Randall and Gary showed up at Arthur's apartment. Joker doesn't match that. In other words: Who Arthur imagines himself to be, and how he eventually acts, finally comes together. Singapore has seen over 50 years of major road projects, from the PIE to the North-South Corridor. Edit, He certainly could, but: Edit, The guy in the subway was singing badly. Could Thomas Wayne have forced Penny to sign fake adoption papers to cover up the child born out of wedlock? Arthur had his signboard taken from him by a group of teens of colour, who proceeded to beat him up. Maybe he was he still hung up about the gun. When Murray got shot, no security or police jumped Arthur. Arthur's counsellor who eventually cut off his access to meds, which led him spiralling downwards even further, was also a black woman -- even though it was the system that failed both her and Arthur. Is Thomas Wayne considered an antagonist in this film? and our Usually the Joker's laughter is portrayed as campy, terrifying, or some combination thereof. More broadly speaking, Wayne's publicly stating on television that Gotham's underclass were "clowns" like that guy who murdered those three brokers from his company (referring to Fleck, though Wayne didn't know he was that guy at the time) certainly made him seem "rude" in their eyes as well. It's also supposed to be a highly emotional moment for him, the first time he takes control of his own life. This is where we need to look at Arthur's murders sequentially. Edit, It's repeatedly shown in the movie that Arthur lives in a city of corruption. rev2023.4.21.43403. The Pattinson Batman is more akin to the typical comic book formula. That means people pick on him and when a colleague named Randall gives him a gun because he's his "boy" and he needs to "protect himself." Arthur decides to take him up on the offer. Like much else in this movie, whether this is *THE* Joker's origin story or just *A* Joker's origin story is left to the audience to guess. When Arthur gets assaulted by a group of teenagers, Randall offers him a gun to defend himself, but when Arthur gets fired for possessing the weapon, Randall gives no help to him and demonstrates his true colors and gets killed by the newly turn nihilistic criminal Joker. For example when he implied that Arthur laughed in his stand up comedy performance because he thought laughing so much would force the viewers to laugh too (suggesting that he was bad at jokes so he chose this as an alternate way to entertain people instead)Also, Murray's face expressions clearly explained that he was taunting Arthur through every word that he spoke, and that he was not being amused by any of his jokes. Arthur then killed Randall, when Randall and Gary came to visit. This also goes to show Arthur's unstable psyche: He would lie about bringing a real gun to the children's hospital (he told his boss and the detectives it was a prop for his clown act), but he would confess without probing to triple homicide. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. The police are pretty sure that Arthur did it, but they don't have confirming evidence yet, and don't want to be made fools because they caught a patsy. This scene can hit home to anyone who's ever done stand-up comedy and/or got stage fright. How was Murray able to air the footage of Arthur's comedy act without getting a release first? The Joker in comic book canon has been quoted as saying that if he had to have a past, he would prefer that it be multiple choice. While she cares about her son, she has shown to lie to him multiple occasions which leads to her downfall. Todd revealed, that he tried to convince Joaquin several times, before Joaquin accepted the role. Did Thomas Wayne really have an affair with Penny? They want to slowly roast Arthur with repeated visits until he either snaps or confesses. Why did joker kill Randall? (B) A competent defense lawyer (assuming Arthur could get one) could likely get the first two killings ruled justifiable homicides, but the third man he killed was retreating; pursuing him and finishing him off with malice aforethought as Arthur did is murder in the first degree according to the laws of every state in the USA. 2) It's meant to be deliberately ambiguous, him being locked up for his crimes. (D) Arthur being mentally ill and therefore a rather unreliable witness, he'd have a difficult time getting anyone to believe his testimony, especially when facing in court the (probably) more affluent and better educated friends and families and employers of the three men he killed. Edit, One of the mind-bending twists is that whole sections of the movie are manifestations of Arthur delusions - such as his entire relationship with his next-door neighbor Sophie. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. 1981 is when the movie takes place, but did Joker become to become Joker in the 80's in the setting of other Batman movies? Its cringe-worthy stuff as it rolls down his leg and onto the floor while extremely ill children watch. Edit, It's unlikely. This is where we go from feeling sorry for him to seeing him as the psychopath he is. Maybe his madness going further? plot explanation - Why does no one notice the Joker's presence as a That means people pick on him and when a colleague named Randall gives him a gun because hes his "boy" and he needs to "protect himself." That's the true end to the story. Did Arthur/Joker kill the mental hospital clerk who refused to give him the papers regarding his mother? On whose turn does the fright from a terror dive end? Web development by Ripplewerkz. Arthur decides to take him up on the offer. He would have needed to set this bag down in order to retrieve two additional rounds and insert them in the weapon. Arthur can't blame all his decision on other people being jerks or his illnesses some are his own poor judgement, like not reporting the beatdown to the store owner or calling the cops about it. But within this call for help is also the speaking of truth. Does this mean Arthur was prepared to kill anyone who walked through his door? and our Edit, It was a Pre-Model 36 version of the Smith & Wesson Chief's .38 Special, it was mistakenly misidentified as a Colt Detective Special. Ergo, him calling him clowns. Up until that point Arthur has only been killing people he perceived as responsible for his situation (his mother, Randall, subway attackers). Arthur's mother: And did Arthur really kill his mother in hospital? But this only serves to bring out the blandness and correctness of Murray Franklin, who as a consummate showman, also pulls off terrible one-liners. His "girlfriend": He most likely did not kill her and just left the apartment. The entire ending, after all, plays like a deranged and alienated man's ultimate fantasy - he publicly gets even with everyone who ever humiliated him, murders a famous celebrity live on national television, and not only does everyone love him, he inspires a mass movement that seems to worship him. We now take a look at 10 times he was absolutely terrifying in the grittiest blockbuster of the year. Are those cigarettes real? Or different Batman characters who eventually become a Joker? [CDATA[ Only in the last scene Arthur will spare him because he never was mean towards Arthur.Based on that logic, the last encounter of the trio gave Gary and Randall what they deserveSo Randall lied that Arthur got it from someone else and that Arthur even tried to buy one from Randall. In a chat with /Film . Since Joker had his spin off movie, is it possible that the Riddler might have a spin off movie? Patients may find themselves crying uncontrollably at something that is only moderately sad, being unable to stop themselves for several minutes. **It's like Ask Science, but all questions and answers are written with answers gleaned from the universe itself. Arthur figured out that Randall set him down this path into madness and wronged him which is why he murders him out of vengeance. (C) Even if his lawyer could arrange some kind of plea-bargain deal to get his sentence for the third killing reduced, Arthur's using a gun he was not legally allowed to own (due to his being mentally ill) would also earn him some further prison time and civil penalties. Arthur's existence was barely registered by Sophie, his black single mother neighbour raising a daughter, and he ends up fantasising about her. Also Murray had no way of knowing Arthur had his gun on him. In his line before the murder, he mentions her full name, and how he has not been happy a minute of his whole life, so the terrible childhood, which maybe now came back to him, is a real factor. The mother then tells him not to bother her kid (which is sad enough, because he was making the baby happy) and he starts having a laughing fit. If this incident (or something like it) did in fact happen, Thomas was most likely "flying off the handle" at Arthur for having put his fingers in his son Bruce's mouth; a rather creepy violation of the child's personal space that would seriously upset any decent parent or guardian, though not necessarily to the point of provoking such a violent reaction. Batman Wiki is a FANDOM Comics Community. Why couldn't the police find Arthur after the subway shooting? Edit, As it is a stand-alone Joker is able to avoid this problem; some possibilities are: Setting an alarm on the heart monitor is standard medical protocol in a hospital, especially in an ICU which is where she would have been with her serious condition. Maybe inspecting Arthur's gait in that scene would be telling? Here's the "joke": Randall was murdered by the patsy he wanted to set up as a murderer. Why didn't Arthur respond in shock to Sophie not knowing his name when he was in her apartment? The first scene we see Randall, as he hands Arthur a gun, Randall has an evil smile on his face while suggesting Arthur pays him back sometime, followed up with you know youre my boy. which triggers Arthurs laugh. User Reviews The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. "We wanted to make the interpretation of the real versus what's not real, a part of the viewer's experience," Sher recently told /Film. This would presumably also include the hospitals. A place to discuss all things related to DC's Joker character. It is further evidence he is likely to be on the spectrum. Arthur Flecks crimes begin to catch up on him and two GCPD officers try to apprehend him during an action-packed chase scene. What is Wario dropping at the end of Super Mario Land 2 and why? For example, if the movie title was changed to Depression, with no hint that this movie is about the genesis of a comic book villain, it will play out like an absolute tragedy (a live studio shooting as the city got engulfed in riots and overrun by looters). Leaving out "the" introduces a necessary ambiguity; after all, a key part of most versions of the Joker is that no one, not even he, truly know knows who he is or where he comes from. Even then Randall takes advantage of the good nature of Arthur by talking him into taking the gun.When things go awry, Randall quickly (and successfully) tries to push the blame on Arthur, which is when Arthur realizes the true colors of Randall.Then later, when the walls are closing in on the gun, Randall makes contact with Arthur again, to ensure that "their stories will align". Theory on Randall I feel as though Randall played some role in abusing Arthur as an adult. Also because there were no cameras and no reliable witnesses to confirm the identity of the suspect. Maybe what he does could be seen as less idiotic and more heroic in that light. Then he claimed Arthur wanted to buy it. Because if he was, that scene must be in his head. It might all be a lie and that he accepted the abuse claim since he got tired of her.2.) Going to the police might only make things worse. This films many similarities to 'The King Of Comedy' ,filmed in 1981 & released in 1982 may also be a pointer to the time it is set. Edit, The pillow is crushing the tube, probably the nose too. Also notice that the show's director made a "cut" gesture in the background, meaning camera feed was probably cut off and somebody may have at least tried to slip out and find a phone to call the police. Besides acting a bit strange, people tend to pick on Arthur Fleck because of his laugh. Edit, No. The police then find themselves unable to escape as clowns from all directions start grabbing them and beating them to a pulp. What is the exact timeline of the Joker movie universe? Why did Thomas Wayne punch Arthur instead of confronting him calmly like Alfred did? By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. In order to discover whether or not this is true, he takes a trip to Wayne Manor and meets Bruce Wayne for the first time on the other side of a well-polished metallic gate. Why did Arthur do the suicidal self-shooting gesture to Sophie in her apartment? Copyright 2020 Mothership. The splattering of blood on Joker's white face paint was a very nice touch. Or as **fanlore.org** calls it [Watsonian, not a Doylist point of view](http://fanlore.org/wiki/Watsonian_vs._Doylist). Did Joaquin Phoenix really go mad, losing 52 lbs. That's what it certainly appears to be? Also, Murray seems to understand that Arthur isn't actually insane, It's clear that Arthur is trying to justify his crimes, and as far as Murray can tell, Arthur is pretending to be the subway murderer to gain attention. To make it worse, the mother possibly doesn't even care about this explanation. When Arthur murders his mother in the hospital, the heart monitor that she is connected to does not alarm as her heart rate skyrockets, then starts to fail. Brett Cullen and Joaquin Phoenix have an age difference of about 20 years, so this could realistically be true.However, it would imply a large deviation from the comics by making Arthur Bruce's brother. (Laughing previously during his performance instead of doing comedy)The real life late night talk show host David Letterman was known for inviting quirky people onto his show and subtly mocking them, especially if they had low social awarenessHowever many fans prefer to believe that the invitation was real and that Murray's motives were not merely to make fun of Arthur. Unlike regular superhero movies, (Shazam, Suicide Squad or any other Marvel movie), there is no one transformative moment in Arthur's story that made him the Joker. Is it possible he has a limp due to his abuse in the past that caused him to have it? Some post-screening stuff to think about. Initially, all signs point to Joaquin Phoenixs character offing himself on live television to make a grand statement about mental illness and society, with Arthur even putting a gun to his head by a way of practice. It took a series of events to trigger Joker's genesis. When Arthur's boss fired him over the gun, how come Arthur didn't mention Randall giving the gun to him because he was told to have it for self-defense? movies.stackexchange.com/questions/104978/, New blog post from our CEO Prashanth: Community is the future of AI, Improving the copy in the close modal and post notices - 2023 edition. Literature about the category of finitary monads. Edit, If Arthur didn't drink alcohol, they probably wouldn't have brought him wine as a present. plot explanation - Why did Randall give the Joker the gun? - Movies Box office takings are suggesting the critics are wrong. As the men lie there, one of them turns their head in his direction and is horrified to see Joker dancing off with a big, villainous smile on his face. Edit, An unnamed rioter. But there is something a bit off with this scene. Another possibility exists; the movie makes a point of establishing that the city's budget is practically nonexistent and funding for city services has been slashed to the bone. He had just called him to increase the ratings of his show by interviewing a person who had gone viral because of his weird behavior. plot explanation - Why did no one stop Joker from burning money Through the information he saw on the medical record - and he kills her after seeing that record - it turns out that she had let him be abused and beaten up since a tender age, which would probably be the cause of his mental and physical issues. She reminded Arthur that her young daughter was sleeping in their bedroom and the film reveals that Sophie and Arthur, in fact, barely know each other. Just like no one thought his comedy bits were funny but him. "For instance, his relationship to Sophie is a fantasy to him. When he made fun of Arthur, he didn't know Arthur had a mental illness which caused him to laugh so much. Randall is shown to be so concerned for Arthur's well-being after he gets beaten that he gives him the firearm to defend himself. Knowing he cant trust a word his mother says, Joker decides to kill her. Edit, Arthur's father is not revealed for certain in the film. any normal person would. He is presumpting condescending peoples ability to use the term 'cents' as a literate forecoxing of demeneation or banking on somebodies life makes it acceptable that they would even be living in the first place. Edit, More importantly, we could build an entire series of films based entirely on this concept. SPOILER: Did Murray deserve to die in the Joker movie? - Quora The most sensible explanation is that he was off his meds, not drugged up and dulled and couldn't control his emotions, and needed to find a space that would deprive him of further stimuli. Edit, This Joker is a completely standalone non-canon take on the character. Arthur is killing people who've wronged him in a certain way, and Sophie never wronged him." Who plays Batman, the other side of the coin, and why isn't he credited? Murray became the "joke" and that joke was death. Is this an intentional nod to the Bat Pole? Arthur's been told his mother is delusional and maybe he doesn't want to accept that and live with that? Whenever Arthur trudges up the stairs, which are plenty, it is a physical representation of his struggle in life as Arthur. It could be that it's someone else's fault Murray got killed because his team didn't up security on the show like they really should have. Edit, He certainly was in Arthur Fleck's eyes. Edit, Awards Edit, No..he can read letters & his journal while haphazard in structure and style seemingly contains very few spelling mistakes .